[00:00:00] Richard: On November 5th, 2024, as the U. S. election approached, I was flying somewhere over the Atlantic Ocean, vying for Germany. The irony was not lost on me that I was headed to a nation that had made significant strides in overcoming a dark chapter in its history marked by hatred and division. In contrast, the United States seemed poised to take a different path.

[00:00:21] While I've had my apprehension about elections before, this one felt particularly daunting. The potential consequences of this election were far reaching and could shape the future of the nation. For me, this election was less about politics and more about the core values that define us as Americans.

[00:00:38] This vote would determine whether we would embark on a path of progress. Growth, progress, and healing, or if we were succumb to hateful rhetoric that jeopardizes the rights of me and other members of marginalized communities. Welcome to Unlearning the World through the Looking Glass, where we explore the moments, learnings, and experiences that changed how we saw the world forever.

[00:00:59] I'm [00:01:00] Richard and I'm joined by Becky and Shannon. In this first episode, we'll dive into America's decision. What it means for us personally and how it could shape the future of our country. Let's get started. This episode starting out is going to be a little bit different than the normal episodes.

[00:01:17] Usually we are going to try to focus on our views on a single matter, but the election was something that was too big to ignore. So it's been a little while since the election ended. And I know that my world kind of got turned upside down, but it kind of goes to business as usual the further you get away from it.

[00:01:35] But I think everybody's really dreading. What's coming next? And everybody's been kind of preparing. How are you feeling about the election? Just general thoughts. So I'm 

[00:01:45] Shannon: not surprised. I think a lot of people are surprised when I say that, but there's a myriad of reasons why I was kind of unfazed either way.

[00:01:54] I can't say that I was pleased with the entire [00:02:00] process for either presidential candidate. And so I think America has a lot of work to do, um, in regards to really. being a country that understands all of its people and not just segmented groups. And so I think for me, the feeling was kind of, I don't want to say indifference is what I'll summarize it as whoever's in the, in the presidential seat was kind of like, okay, I think there's going to be arguments on both sides of who would have been a better choice.

[00:02:34] And also who would do the most damage for the next four years, but I think for me, it's an indifference and I'm not surprised that's where we are. 

[00:02:42] Richard: It's kind of sad. That might be more sad than the election, like that you felt indifferent about it. 

[00:02:49] Shannon: I mean, I just, I wasn't surprised. I mean, I could go into like why I wasn't surprised.

[00:02:55] There's a list of things I think the Democratic party and the vice [00:03:00] president could have done different, but I don't, I still don't think that would have put her in the seat. So I think. Overall, the Democratic Party and maybe a lot of people because they get their news through social media really are impacted by proximity, right?

[00:03:16] What you see on your algorithm, you think that everybody in the world or everyone in America has the same views as you and the same beliefs as you and everyone thinks that Donald Trump is crazy. That is not true. True. And so when you get out of the proximity of, Hey, someone's going to have opposing beliefs, um, and opinions on you, I think that gets us a long way, but I think a lot of people got caught into, Hey, everybody in my group, everyone I know, everyone on social media, everyone in my algorithm, is definitely not going to vote for this guy.

[00:03:48] He's a sexist. He's this. And lo and behold, it was a country full of red. So clearly, There is an opposing side that has different beliefs, different values that they [00:04:00] thought trumped what the Democratic Party was presenting. So I think a lot of people get bamboozled by proximity and what people around them believe.

[00:04:10] And it's, it's, you got to know that there's an other side. So I 

[00:04:13] Beki: come from kind of a different perspective on that. I also, though, was not particularly surprised. I was. working very hard to keep hope alive that it was still possible. I did that for myself, just to be able to keep on moving forward. But I wasn't, I don't pay attention to polls anymore.

[00:04:34] I just don't feel the value of that. And so I, I didn't really get all excited thinking, okay, this will be no problem. And when the results finally came through, Can't say that I was surprised at the same time, my proximity is a bit more mixed. I have people in my circle who absolutely believe [00:05:00] that Trump would be the better choice in terms of the election.

[00:05:04] And they do have their reasons for why that might be. We can agree or disagree on those reasons. And yet I just recognized how many people were out there who were thinking that this was the best solution. And I think that's part of what kept me cautious about what the results would be instead of listening to maybe some of the things that were in my newsfeed.

[00:05:32] Though arguably I had some rational actors within my newsfeed who were also saying, yeah, right. So don't get too excited. 

[00:05:40] Richard: I kind of want to address something that you said, Shannon, you talked about proximity. And when I think about, the thing that I've been thinking about the last few years is how social media has exposed, like, small group thoughts to bigger demographics.

[00:05:53] Right. And I knew it had negative impacts and positive impacts. So I thought that, like, with [00:06:00] proximity, you were definitely right. Like, proximity, like, I had a ton of people around me who all felt like the same way. I will say. I was not enthusiastic about the election at all, because I was saying, like, Donald Trump is the best that the Republican Party can come up with.

[00:06:17] And then I was saying Joe Biden is the best that the Democratic Party can come up with. I wasn't enthusiastic about either one of them. And I'm, and I'm just looking at like, Really, these are our best choices. This is like all of the United States, all the people that we have, all the different groups, like we have, we have a felon and we have grandpa, like that.

[00:06:38] Those are our two options. And really when they brought out Kamala. Which I felt like, I was like, why was Joe Budden, Joe Biden, not Joe Budden? That's a whole different 

[00:06:48] Beki: thing. That's Benjamin 

[00:06:50] Richard: Budden, very different. Completely different. Um, I was like, why is he still even trying to run? Like, there's no way that he should run.

[00:06:58] Because initially he said he wasn't [00:07:00] even running for a second term. 

[00:07:01] Yeah. 

[00:07:02] Richard: The way that they brought out Kamala in the 11th hour. Yeah. It just felt like they were setting her up to fail. 

[00:07:10] Beki: It was messy. It was very messy because it was right after that debate and we all know which that debate was and that was awful.

[00:07:21] Though again, neither Biden or Trump did exceptionally well in that. Trump started strong and started to spiral at the end. Biden Started weak and then seemed to realize how much he was failing and decided to kind of buckle in and do the job a little bit. Not sure he fully recovered, but it still was an awful debate overall.

[00:07:48] And then all of a sudden it's, it's, You know, we're going to run and fear the other direction when they were a year too late running in fear, the other direction. I also feel like I need to point out [00:08:00] Trump is grandpa too, 

[00:08:01] Richard: right? Yeah. Oh, he definitely is. 

[00:08:02] Beki: Like we could go for a bit younger. I don't mean to be ageist.

[00:08:06] I'm just saying that these two gentlemen were not the appropriate choices for putting into. The greatest office in our country for four more years. Neither one 

[00:08:18] Shannon: agree. I, I would agree. I think for me, I don't remember the person's name, but she did a great like op ed about this and basically said from the beginning that if Biden had said, I'm going to do a second term, like he needed to finish it out.

[00:08:33] And I agree with that for the simple fact that that's who the people elected and to. Whether, I mean, I feel like there, if there was health issues or anything like that, that was known beforehand. I think they did a selfish decision to keep him because they thought, hey, this is, he is a, he's a unifying president, right?

[00:08:57] He got, you know, votes from [00:09:00] everybody. But I think the mistake was to then know his, his health was the reason why he kind of pulled out. I think automatically that put Kamala at a disadvantage because once she technically wasn't elected, the argument that I have for that is if you voted for Biden, you voted for.

[00:09:18] Kamala, right? It's a two person, like the reason why there is a vice president is if something happens to the president, the vice president takes their place. They're not saying that though, which I think really is it is, is it puts her in a very negative light, right? Because they're not saying, hey, He is incapacitated.

[00:09:41] They're acting like this man is still the president of the United States making these decisions and he is, but they didn't appoint her like, Hey, she is now the acting president, right? They didn't give her that. So she's running on all the industry, all the things that they, [00:10:00] American people think that Biden has done wrong.

[00:10:02] There's a lot of touchy topics that are attached to this. Presidency, and she had to carry the burden of whatever decisions Joe Biden made as president, and then also run as the first black woman as for a president. So she had so many things going against her personally, because there is a difference, right?

[00:10:24] Because Hillary did, did run. And I think even Hillary, like she didn't beat Obama, but like, And she didn't beat Trump, but she did run both of those and had a little bit more votes across the board. I personally think, uh, Kamala should have never been VP. That is a very unpopular opinion, but I personally think that putting her as VP.

[00:10:48] With Biden automatically put her in a place that she was not going to be able to ever become president, right? They didn't utilize her well, and then now when it's time for her to do the hit the ground running She [00:11:00] wasn't able to they didn't know who she was. They didn't utilize her as a VP. They didn't know anything about her She had very little time for to be The American people to be like, this is what she represents.

[00:11:09] There's a lot of false narratives. There's a lot of misinformation. And she spent a lot of time, um, focused on that and spent a lot of time on things personally. I don't think, well, I feel like the numbers showed that really, um, cemented with a lot of American people. So I personally think. She should, attaching herself to Biden in any way, shape or form after we're, if you want to blame him.

[00:11:36] But if we do the stats, like recession started to happen and the economy started to happen under Trump, but the, the impacts are under Biden. So no one really cares about anything except what they're going through. Nobody cares about the truth anymore. 

[00:11:49] Richard: Right. I just, I 

[00:11:50] Shannon: just, I just want more money in my pocket.

[00:11:52] I just want to be able to afford this, this and this. And so I think she spent a lot of time on very. polarizing topics, which was [00:12:00] fine, I think, but it just did not give her a good, good legs to stand on. I personally think if she had never been VP, Um, and they had gone back and he decided not to run a second term.

[00:12:11] She would have been a great candidate by herself. Again, I am a Kamala fan in regards to her or supporter, but being a black woman in America, you're already starting back a little bit farther back. Then you're going to add all this other stuff. I just feel like it was a setup for failure, even though they thought they could do a Barack Obama effect and it that's what they tried to do.

[00:12:33] And I think that was a mistake. 

[00:12:35] Richard: I think you said a lot of like really good things and what you were saying. And the thing that really got me during this election was that. The way that Kamala came out, and that short amount of time that she had, and the interest and the fundraising that she did, she really stirred up hope.

[00:12:51] Yeah. And it's like, that hope got me messed up. But then I started to listen to the narrative, so like, when we talked about the intro, [00:13:00] so it's like, she's, she's an educated black woman who's been elected to multiple positions inside of the United States government. Elected. Not appointed. Elected. She helped run one of the biggest states in the country, right?

[00:13:15] Yeah. And so she's probably one of the most qualified presidential candidates we had, but according to some people, she was a DEI hire, right? She's a DEI pick. I think just the total disrespect, like the misogyny and the racism that, that happened during this election kind of blindsided me because I thought that we were so far past this.

[00:13:36] Yeah. But the thing that I started to realize as I watched both sides very closely is that we have this very, uh, specifically, I will, I will say like the very strong conservative side has this, it's bad when you do it, but when we do it, it's okay. So it's like, we don't want a criminal, but if Donald Trump doesn't, it's fine.

[00:13:58] Yes. Yes. [00:14:00] Yes. 

[00:14:00] Beki: Well, and I think the other thing about the DEI hire. Yeah. piece of things, which I agree was a ridiculous statement to make, but it's, it's pithy. It's an easy sell. It gets picked up. And it was during a time when there was a lot of resistance to DEI. initiatives within organizations where all of this had, everyone was signing up right after George Floyd for DEI, DEI, let's prove how good we are.

[00:14:29] And then the passion waned. And so with that, all of a sudden they have this catchy little phrase that they can toss out there so that that can be the answer to everything. And Whether or not she's the right candidate or not, and I do think that she was a strong contender, she got all of that excitement up in the beginning, but even at the beginning, as a black woman being, you know, starting from behind anyway, they actually made her deposed even more [00:15:00] because now she's second best.

[00:15:01] Well, we wanted Biden, but now Biden can't make it. So now we're going to back up and we're going to go to the next best. Well, that's not true, is it? Because we didn't get that choice. 

[00:15:14] Shannon: Right. Yeah, I, I agree because I, I think her qualifications are amazing. I think she would, would have been more than capable to run this country.

[00:15:25] Her, her speeches, like how she delivered messages was on par. I think that it was just a timing thing. I think she did invoke a sense of hope to a community. But like I said, I think proximity of You have a lot of people that were so anti Trump, but you had a lot of people that were not so keen on Biden or not so keen on that administration, which she was attached to, and there wasn't enough distance between them or time to really set her own [00:16:00] groundwork, right?

[00:16:01] So she had to. There could be stuff that she wasn't really on, on Biden's, you know, side with, but she can't really say anything about it because she's still VP. So there was a very fine line. I think that she had to walk, um, in order to still preserve her. Her VP title, but also, Hey, I can lead this country.

[00:16:21] I also, I mean, we didn't talk about this, but I don't think that her VP pick was the right thing for her. I think it, it did not help her in the race. And I think overall for the DEI portion of it, it was easy. It was low hanging fruit. Right. I think, I don't think she was surprised by that. I think that the Democratic Party, because I'm going to say unilaterally, because I feel like they run their races the same, pretty evenly.

[00:16:52] I think that they don't ever want to get down in the mud. They always try to like take the higher route and not address some of these [00:17:00] crazy, You know, commentary. I know that he said, Hey, well, she's not black. Well, and her response was, I'm not going to address that. I understand that you thought that that was beneath you, but I think that some people are asking that question, whether it's fair or not, whether it's ridiculous or not.

[00:17:19] I think that a lot of times the stuff that Trump put out, they ignored. Right. They were just like, Trump's crazy. And I think that was literally the misstep they took every time. He's crazy. He does all these crazy things. No one's going to listen to him. Why would he say this? Let's look at the number, the dump truck and talking about Puerto Rico, right?

[00:17:41] Richard: Yeah. That was loud. 

[00:17:43] Beki: You know what I'm saying? A lot of dumpster fires that could have been out there to talk about. 

[00:17:47] Shannon: And how many, how many people voted for him that are either have family or are affiliated to Puerto Rico? Puerto Rico. 

[00:17:56] Richard: It was crazy that that joke happened at an [00:18:00] event for Trump and Trump refused to say anything about it, but.

[00:18:04] Biden like misquoted it, said something and then he instantly was like, Oh, that's not what I meant. And they sent out like, Oh, this is, this is not what I meant. And then they instantly started attacking them for the thing that they were talking about that happened at his fundraising event. They had a dump truck, like a 

[00:18:22] Shannon: dump truck with the vet.

[00:18:23] Like, I just, I really think there was so much. They underestimated him. They underestimated the marketing. They underestimated the reach. And how can they 

[00:18:34] Beki: do that still? Because the following part of this is, is tremendous. And you know, evangelical Christians are able to set aside all of his moral and immoral choices that he has made.

[00:18:53] And they're just like, we're going to follow him anyway. And it's fascinating to [00:19:00] me in the sense that now he made all these promises that those of us who have kind of watched him in the scenes, we're have recognized as false promises. I just want to get the seat. I just want to win the challenge that is in front of me.

[00:19:15] And after that, I'm no longer interested and other people can do the work. I'm not affiliated with project 2025, but now all of a sudden he is. And so it's, we don't believe him because we see. the aspects of this that are lies. There are other people who are not hearing the message that he has been telling lies.

[00:19:39] They're hearing all of the other news or pseudo news about how wonderful he is and all of these things that he has accomplished and how all of these other people are evil and coming to get your kids or your pets or whatever else is out there to be consumed. It's ridiculous. 

[00:19:59] Richard: Speaking, [00:20:00] like, speaking, the way that you say that, like, it makes, because Shannon, you kind of touched on it.

[00:20:03] Becky, you kind of just touched on it again. I was thinking about the ads that, like, I was getting my hair done and I had to sit through, like, the person that does my hair does not have, like, the ad free version of whatever we were watching. And it was just like, Kamala ad, Trump ad, Kamala ad, Trump ad. I'm sorry.

[00:20:23] Yeah, I was losing my mind during this time. But the thing that I noticed And, and the thing that seemed to have worked, like Kamala's message was one of hope, and this is what I'm gonna do, and change is coming. And then Trump's messages were, fear, look at this, this is so bad, this is terrible, you don't want trans people, and they were taking clips out of context and then just making a whole commercial around it.

[00:20:48] And I'm like, like just inherently just the education that I've got, the critical thinking skills that I gained from, from university, like looking at that, like, if I just looked at those separately, didn't [00:21:00] know either one, I'd be like, man, one person is trying to control people with hate and when somebody else is trying to have a.

[00:21:05] A message of hope and moving forward and somebody else is trying to say like, Hey, what's working? They trying to take the country away from you and it's just, it just was terrible. 

[00:21:14] Shannon: See. Yeah. Okay. So I'm going to, I'm going to play devil's advocate on that. Right. Okay. So 

[00:21:21] Richard: you got a big smile. I was listening to you 

[00:21:23] Shannon: and I've had this conversation and people look at me like I'm crazy.

[00:21:26] I, because I like to always look at both sides. That's how you get a better, better understanding. And I think what you're saying, his messaging. was reaching the people that he wanted it to reach. Right. He knows who his constituents are. He knows what they believe. He knows what they want. Right. And so he says the things that he knows they are talking about.

[00:21:49] So whether we want to act like it's a taboo topic, whether we want to say trans right, is not a thing that is talked about in People's homes and what's appropriate, what's not in public settings, that is a [00:22:00] conversation that's happening regardless of what we, we want to believe or think is right or wrong.

[00:22:04] Those conversations are happening. So while it might seem very like distasteful to the ears, he is speaking to his people. The problem with the messaging, again, it was very like, Hey, Barack Obama era. Hope, unifying, all that stuff. She's not speaking to anybody. She's trying to unify, right? And so what happens is that messaging falls on deaf ears because it's like, you're not speaking to the people because the people that voted for Barack Obama, i.

[00:22:33] e. me, that was my first election. We were, I was a freshman in college. Okay. So I now have a seven year old, my life, the things that are important to me are totally different than what they were then. So you're know who you're talking to know what is important and it can't just be a segmented group of people.

[00:22:53] And I think that that's the mishap of the Democratic Party and why Trump always gets it because it's not [00:23:00] fear. He is speaking to those people in middle America or people that feel like the news lies because that's what they say. It's the problem with the news industry in general. They're like, the news is lying.

[00:23:10] These, this is not true. And then you have podcasters or whatever that come on and you have two hour episodes like us, but other ones where that is now a news outlet, right? And so, People can find their truth anywhere. And I say that people can find their truth wherever they want. 

[00:23:31] Richard: Their truth. So quote, quote, their truth, right?

[00:23:35] Yes. I 

[00:23:36] Shannon: mean, it's like we can say those are lies. Some of them are like facts, right? But some of them are just, hey, He never did that. That's the media. That's the right wing. That's the left wing media, you know, presenting this. That's not what he meant. Yes. They cut and chop and screw and all that stuff.

[00:23:56] That stuff, it happens. [00:24:00] Yes. And so I think he does a really good job talking to his people about the things that they want him to talk about. 

[00:24:10] Richard: I think the saddest thing is, is how many of people connected with that message though. That's the scary part for me, not even that Yeah, but they didn't 

[00:24:16] Beki: have to connect with all of them, right?

[00:24:19] I guess that's true. They, they only have to connect with enough Correct. To pull them over to the side. And one of the things that I think fails in the messaging, and particularly this idea you know, just trying to speak to everyone instead of speaking to a particular group is when you're trying to speak to everyone, you're not speaking to anyone.

[00:24:40] Shannon: And 

[00:24:40] Beki: so there's this whole idea of how can you customize your message of hope and joy and contentment, but it's also harder to sell that message than it is to message something that I actually do think it's fear. In a lot of ways, it's fear of something being [00:25:00] taken away from me, fear of something that won't be available to me in the future.

[00:25:05] And so it drives that inner peace. That's where you get motivated to take action. People don't make change until they get motivated to take an action. and that's usually grounded in emotion, not in their brain, right? It's actually what they're thinking makes them feel a certain way. Then they do something without the feeling.

[00:25:26] They just sit there and kind of chew on the thoughts. 

[00:25:30] Shannon: Yeah, but I think both parties you've used, try to use fear tactics. Cause I feel like the democratic party tried to do that, but they really focused on women, women's rights a 

[00:25:39] lot. 

[00:25:40] Shannon: And I, I'm going to be honest, truth be told, if you, if you're trying to talk to a united group, right?

[00:25:47] That is a very polarizing topic, but not every single state had banned abortion. So when you're talking to everybody, right, and that's one of your, like, points, well, some [00:26:00] people are in the middle, pro choice, either way. Some people are like, absolutely not, I don't believe in this, right? And so when you put that on a large scale, you're, you've already sliced the thing.

[00:26:12] And then it's like, well, this doesn't impact me. Right? This doesn't impact me. I can get an abortion still in my state, right? My doctor can do this. So then, It's really saying, and this is what the Republican Party said, we're leaving it up to the states. Some people want that type of government. So when they tried it, that's a fear tactic.

[00:26:35] They think all women are like, I don't believe, I want women, like, freedom of choice. And unfortunately, that's not all of women's views on it. And so you've already severed that conversation, right? And so I think there was fear tactics on both sides. I think some worked and some didn't. I, I really believe they want, we're in a, we're in an era that they want less [00:27:00] government, more control, but 

[00:27:02] Beki: yeah, until they have it and then things can swing back again.

[00:27:06] Right. It's been a pendulum for the whole time that we have been a country where we spin up And we put everything at risk, going one way or the other, and then we swing all the way back again. And there's this repercussion every single time. If we could learn from that history, that would be kind of nice to be able to do.

[00:27:26] And I think that I, I hear you in terms of the selling fear when it came to, women's rights. And it's not just abortion, but as women's rights in general, I think, because they not only talk about abortion, they also also talk about contraception and other kinds of things as well. And I think that to homogenize all women into a single So if we all don't agree on anything, there is no group, everyone who belongs to that group [00:28:00] agrees on one thing.

[00:28:01] Um, and so I think that there's really a fallacy around, Hey, I know we'll just go after the women by this one topic. No, because we don't feel the same. But I do think that. The fear marketing, I was going to use a different word, but I think it's fear marketing and I think that it really kind of comes down to what are the soul driving kinds of things.

[00:28:26] If you're talking about my kid's education, if you're talking about health, if you're talking about money, if you're talking about just security as I'm aging, those kinds of things. really matter to a lot of different people. And so now you've got this cross section of people who don't get bucketed into a particular group.

[00:28:48] So you can hybridize your marketing enough so that you touch more people with a higher volume of things. 

[00:28:56] Richard: So the thing that I don't think either side [00:29:00] really understands or realize, or maybe they do and maybe I'm the naive one, is that whatever rules and laws that you change while you're in control of the government apply to the other side when they, I'm thinking like, Gerrymandering was started by the Democrats and the Republicans came in and perfected it like they were Apple, you know, perfecting a product.

[00:29:22] And I think that a lot of times that we forget that the rules we make apply to everybody. So I think it's some people right now. that are voting to take away stuff from other people. Maybe it's the black community. Maybe it's the LGBTQ plus community and not realizing that the same things that you take away from them, those laws were protecting things that are important to you as well.

[00:29:45] Shannon: Yeah, but we're self serving, right? We're, we're a self serving. America. So if it doesn't directly impact us, I don't think people look past their own doorstep sometimes. 

[00:29:59] Richard: [00:30:00] Yeah. The thing is, is not having that foresight will end up costing you in the long run. 

[00:30:04] Beki: Well, yes, except for they don't have, they humans, I mean, don't necessarily have the cognitive discipline to go back to, Oh, it was me that made that choice.

[00:30:19] You know, it's, it's, this group came after these other people that I see. I never thought they'd get to me. Now all of the sudden they're coming after me. and I'm surprised. It's, it's that sort of calculation. And again, you see it all over the place. I read an article not so long ago where I think it was in Afghanistan where they were going after the women's rights, right?

[00:30:46] Like they were no longer able to work and they were no able to no longer able to walk without an escort, a male escort, I believe it was. And now all of a sudden they're showing up at doorsteps. [00:31:00] talking to people about they haven't gone to temple, right? Not to temple, to the mosque. Sorry, wrong religion.

[00:31:07] They wouldn't, weren't being seen at the mosque. And so now you have to show up to the mosque because otherwise, you know, we, we will, have you on a list. And all of a sudden these men are kind of stepping back going, well, maybe we should have probably paid a little bit more attention when they were kind of bringing this discipline to the women.

[00:31:28] Frankly, I think that that's really impressive that they put those pieces together because most of the time we aren't able to do that calculus because we're so much living in, this is my pain right now that we don't recognize the pain of others, much less the pain of others back then. Right. I think it's 

[00:31:46] Shannon: funny that as Americans, we just like are in this endless cycle, right?

[00:31:53] It's like we don't learn our lessons Easily like it's like we have to keep repeating the same [00:32:00] mistakes all over and over and over again So it's very interesting to me But like what do you say about the people that chose not to vote or specifically did not vote? for presidential candidates at all.

[00:32:12] Cause I think that's a big, I think I started it where I was like, I was indifferent to me, I value the voting system. Right? Besides Electoral College, because I think it's stupid. But, the concept of voting is very important to me, so I don't skip. But there was a lot of people that were like, I don't like anybody.

[00:32:32] So I'm just not going to vote. 

[00:32:34] Yeah. 

[00:32:34] Shannon: And while I understand that, in my mind I'm like, I'm always going to vote. Because historically, I was not always able to vote. But again, it's just 

[00:32:44] Beki: cycles. All three of us at some point in time, not so long ago, actually. Yeah, 

[00:32:49] Richard: for different reasons. For different reasons.

[00:32:51] Yes. Yes. 

[00:32:52] Beki: And we all came to the ability to vote at different points in time, depending upon our social hierarchy as a [00:33:00] consequence of that, right? And my answer to that, you don't get to complain if you don't vote. I'm sorry. 

[00:33:06] Richard: My sentiment is exactly. You don't, 

[00:33:07] Beki: you don't, you don't get to say. You don't, you don't get to have an opinion because you didn't voice your opinion when you had the right and, in my view, the responsibility to put in a vote.

[00:33:18] Shannon: What if they only voted locals? Like, what if they voted all, like, for everybody locally but did not do the president? Well, good for them for using their voice locally, 

[00:33:27] Beki: but it's still, you just still don't get to complain about the president if you didn't vote in the presidential election. You can vote for the mayor and complain about the mayor.

[00:33:36] Good on you. But when you don't, when you don't, Stand up and take a say. When you have the opportunity to do it, you diminish the value of it. And shame on you for that, in my opinion. I mean, that's a harsh and strong opinion, I get it. But it's like, you can do it, you just can't complain then. 

[00:33:58] Shannon: Yeah, I'm in the middle, [00:34:00] right?

[00:34:00] Because part of me is like, that energy. Like, why are you talking to me if you didn't vote, right? But then I'm like, we don't have many options. So I think there was a very large set of people that did not vote that just were not pleased with either side. And there wasn't, I mean, there was, but there wasn't guys.

[00:34:22] I mean, there was, but there wasn't. I'll talk about how we 

[00:34:26] Beki: didn't like either option. Yeah. 

[00:34:29] Shannon: And so I, I kind of wish there was an opportunity, but that's going deep into the, the financial backings of the parties, where there might have been a third option, but I think people are like, I don't want to choose the lesser of two evils, because honestly, I've had people tell me that.

[00:34:48] They're like, I don't want to. I don't like either one of them. So people telling, well, just vote for like the least one that you're worried about. What? I think that is the dumbest thing to tell somebody, but do you [00:35:00] know what? So I get it. I might 

[00:35:01] Beki: rephrase that. I might rephrase that though. Same sentiment, different phrase.

[00:35:06] which is neither one of them is going to be 100 percent supportive of everything that you want. So which candidate supports a higher volume of the things that you support and. Agree. You know, or if you find one person absolutely repulsive, I do think voting against someone is an option, 

[00:35:28] but 

[00:35:28] Beki: I'm a bigger fan of.

[00:35:30] Where do you find the greatest alignment? Because no one is ever going to be 100 percent perfect choice for you. 

[00:35:37] Shannon: Yeah. I go by alliance, right? That's, that's what I, cause again, I think a lot of people put power in just a presidential seat. I mean, I think we've learned. I don't think we have. I don't think I want to take today.

[00:35:52] I want to take right now to be 

[00:35:54] Richard: blinded by hope. 

[00:35:55] Shannon: Okay. So I want to shed some hope on me. [00:36:00] I want to say the Alliance, um, it, the Alliance is where it funnels from, um, President down, right? So I look at it like, if you have somebody in your state or local government, say you're a Democrat, let's, let's go based off of that.

[00:36:21] If you're a Democrat and you know, hopefully, okay, the Senate and the house are very important to have those people in power, I want to align that. Because for the first time in I don't know how many years, the Republican Party has every single, even the Supreme Court at this point, it is about an alliance of things to work in your favor.

[00:36:47] And so if your belief system is more centered on a certain group that, if it's your mayor, if it's whoever, you want the alignment to be whatever they want, that that person is going to [00:37:00] follow suit. And so that's kind of how I look at it. Because the president is like, I mean, besides Trump, because he just vetoes everything and does executive orders, but he, he does whatever he wants.

[00:37:12] But from a, a constitutional based thing, it's, it's more so the Senate and the house of representatives, you want to be in alignment or an agreement to what you want your life to be. And so. That's what I would say. 

[00:37:30] Richard: I would probably, so for any other election, probably other than this one, I would lean, like, I kind of agree with both of you, like where if you didn't vote, you don't get an opinion.

[00:37:41] And it's like, yeah, usually you go for the lesser of the two evils. But I think for this particular election, this was more about morality. We have a particular side of government that is trying to take away black rights. They're trying to take away voter rights. They're trying to take away women's rights.

[00:37:59] They're trying to, [00:38:00] they don't care about the environment. I remember. It was orange outside and I'm, me, a healthy man with healthy lungs was walking outside choking and they're saying, yeah, it looks ugly, but it's perfectly fine. And I'm outside choking. So they don't care about the reality. They don't care about climate change.

[00:38:16] They don't care about wage disparity. They don't care about equality and all of these, all of this. That's not, that's not just like a side. That's, that's morals. That's morality. So not voting in this election. Or voting in this election and not voting for the side that's not trying to take away those rights is voting against me, in a sense.

[00:38:40] Like, if I have somebody that's jeopardizing my, my, my well being and just my right to survive and exist as a human being, and you're voting against that, then you're voting against me. So it felt a little bit more personal in that sense because It fundamentally impacts me in a way that it doesn't [00:39:00] fundamentally impact everybody.

[00:39:01] But I think even people that voted that way are not realizing how it is going to greatly impact their day to day. Like it's not like if you're, if you're not a rich white Christian, straight male, You're not probably going to get the benefits you think you're about to get. 

[00:39:20] Beki: And even then, you might not get the benefits that you think you're going to get, because just because the promise is made doesn't mean the promise is delivered.

[00:39:28] Right. And I, I 

[00:39:30] Shannon: think, Richard, I love that you said that. So I think, I think for me, because I'm trying to say this in a nice way. Okay. So I, for me, for me, I, can coexist with anybody because it's not my job to really tell you how to think. So there are people that I am cool with. That are Trump supporters.

[00:39:56] We're not friends. Okay. We're cool. To my [00:40:00] knowledge, 

[00:40:00] Richard: really 

[00:40:00] Shannon: quickly to my knowledge, right? Because there are things that I wholeheartedly disagree with in regards to his policies and his beliefs. Right. But. With that being said, I think the writing is on the wall, and this is a conversation I've had with everybody, because me and my husband talk about this, we're like, because, you know, people are like, I'm leaving the country, alright, well the grass is not greener, so we, I'm not running out of America, you know, that's not the solution.

[00:40:27] And also I don't have the funds to start a whole new life and job and career and everything else in another country. So, there's that, so let's be realistic. But I think that the writing is on the wall where there is going to be a shift. In a way that the United States is governed and I 100 percent think it's going to be something where people that did not vote or in the more like rural areas of America, the, the onus is going to be on them if they voted for somebody that's locally.

[00:40:58] works for them because Trump doesn't want to be [00:41:00] bothered, right? He wants the states to have the autonomy to do what they want to do. And if y'all don't see that writing on the wall, I don't know what to tell you. So if you are in a state where you don't morally value, agree with whoever's running your state, get ready to buckle up because it's only going to get worse for you.

[00:41:19] So to me, I think there is beauty and growth in understanding someone's. other political views. My mom used to tell me this, like, back in the day, she's like, don't tell anybody who you voted for. Like, that was a thing. Like, nobody openly was like, I'm a Republican. I'm like, that was not a thing back in the day.

[00:41:40] It was like, that was a very, right. It was a very private decision and you don't talk about it over dinner. You don't talk about it in the office. Like now that's becoming a little bit more looser, but I understand the not because it then shifts people's views, but I am. I am a hundred percent aware that there is somebody that disagrees with what I [00:42:00] value as important and doesn't care about things that I care about.

[00:42:03] And so that doesn't make you a bad human, just makes you human. I'm like, pause, or maybe we could have a conversation. But I just know that I can't coexist in a world where people believe everything that I believe. That's that proximity thing I was talking about, because I've just run into it where people are like, Some people vote for Donald Trump just for money, for tax purposes, for Like literally just to fill their pockets.

[00:42:28] Richard: They, do they run a fortune 500 company? Cause those are the ones that's going to be getting it. 

[00:42:32] Shannon: Again, I can only tell you the dreams that were sold, right? And I was richer when he was there. I, my tax, I mean, I'm not going to lie. My taxes were a little bit better under Trump. Okay. But it wasn't enough to be like, He's going to give up all the other things.

[00:42:50] Yeah, so, and also the times were a little different, right? There was certain things going on. We, we had a freaking pandemic. So like, of course, taxes [00:43:00] and things are going to shift, but I think overall, I don't really care who people voted for at this point. I just want people to understand how the government works.

[00:43:08] And I really don't think a lot of people will go into the polls. They don't even vote other than the presidential election. So I, yeah, if you live in a state that you are like thinking that is going to change, no, like, no, he's giving the power to the states. That is how he's breaking this down. That is a writing on the wall.

[00:43:30] Beki: Well, and it comes down even farther than the state politics where it's the local, it's, do you know who your mayor is? Do you know who is on your school board? Yes. All of those kinds of things. And. paying attention to that, doing a little bit of due diligence on that. Yeah. Is worthy of time and also worthy of submitting that vote.

[00:43:56] However you chose to do that and making sure that [00:44:00] you are on the, the voter rolls and all of those pieces. I agree with you. I don't typically get into a tizzy or all twisted up about who someone voted for. I do feel like this one was a little bit more existential. So I do have some graver concerns and also though, I don't dismiss those folks as bad people, because like you said, they might have a single reason that they're voting on something.

[00:44:31] I know a lot of people who are a single policy vote. 

[00:44:36] Shannon: Yes. 

[00:44:37] Beki: And so with that, you can't sway them because the other candidate is aligned with them in that one way. And I don't blame them for that. I really don't. If your belief system is so deeply embedded in that, I can appreciate that that's because everybody actually gets to choose who they vote for.

[00:44:56] That's America. That's how it's set. [00:45:00] Yeah. And I do advocate for that. 

[00:45:03] Richard: So I understand everything that you guys are saying. The thing is, is that when you see, uh, certain groups of people like white supremacists, Nazis, aligning with a particular party or, or, or, um, rallying around a specific person, it makes it a little bit more personal for me being a minority.

[00:45:21] It makes it a lot more personal when somebody says I'm voting for them because of the economy. And, and the thing about the economy now even is that policies, tax breaks that he put in place that looked great when he was in office. That continued to go look worse for us now. So the policy, some of the policies that people are complaining about now came from stuff that he implemented when he was in the office, which is why you really need to understand the way that elections and stuff work.

[00:45:49] So I know that we were all talking about that. We had like different groups around us. Like Becky, you said specifically, had you had people that you knew was voting a different way than you were going to vote? Oh, 

[00:45:59] Beki: [00:46:00] absolutely. 

[00:46:00] Richard: I seen a lot of people cutting people off because of their votes. And it's like, I can understand that, but I haven't gotten to that point.

[00:46:07] And like, Shannon, you said that you don't think you have any friends that voted that way. I know that I have family members that are Black that voted that way. And I know I have a friend that is Black that I am 100 percent sure voted that way, voted against their own self interest. And me and my heart, I look at them, I look at them, I can't even say a little bit differently.

[00:46:30] I look at them differently. Because it's like, it's okay, like, you know, Efron to find out, it's okay for you to Efron to find out when it's you by yourself, but now we all gotta find out when some of us already know, right? So, I guess my question is that I haven't. I haven't. I do look at people differently knowing the alignment and it's like certain parts of me want to be ignorant to certain people's votes to be 100 percent honest.

[00:46:56] But have either you gotten to the point where you wanted to cut [00:47:00] somebody off because of their political opinion? And I mean, like I'm talking about specifically now, because in the past it didn't matter as much, right? When Bush and Clinton and like, it was a little bit different, but I feel like now it's such more, more about morals than it is about politics.

[00:47:15] Beki: Well, and it's funny that you talked there at the end about it's more about morals than it is about politics. And it's one of the things that has burned me up about this is that, you know, the whole idea of church and state. 

[00:47:29] Mm. 

[00:47:31] Beki: And what's really interesting to me is that the people that I. either believe to have voted for Trump or are fairly confident that they did.

[00:47:43] No one comes out to me and says, Hey Becky, I voted for Trump. Like they don't want to talk to me about that. And I get that. That's fine. I don't want to talk to them about it either, to be honest. So I'm, I'm a little bit happier in the hazy land of thinking that I know, but not entirely knowing because what happens [00:48:00] for me is I can, I can live with the question.

[00:48:05] But I have a hard time living with the knowing. So instead of cutting a person off, because I'm not, I'm not that person. I actually am fascinated and always interested in why people make the decisions that they do and really want to understand more and more about that. I don't see myself cutting that person off.

[00:48:27] I do find myself getting dangerously curious and wanting to ask the questions about what drove you to that without it being a judgment. It's no really, like I'm, I'm not going to be mad about your answer, but it really, I deeply want to understand. what would have you voting against your own interests?

[00:48:50] Because many of the people that I know are absolutely voting against their own interests, um, but maybe not necessarily against their belief systems. I think that there [00:49:00] were a lot of people I know who are far more on the idea of abortion because they're pro life and that's a single issue vote that they take and I do respect that.

[00:49:12] Right. Because you get a chance, you get to vote based on your beliefs. And I do respect that. But some of these other things, I can't know that you voted for Trump because you're a racist like that. I can't, I can't hear that. I can't know that. So please, anybody listening? Don't tell me that. 

[00:49:30] Richard: I'm very curious.

[00:49:31] Do you think. With Kamala Harris's policies, her background, all of the stations that she's held in government, and the fact that she's a gun owner, and all of the other things about her. If she was a white male, would she have won the election? 

[00:49:49] Shannon: Um, no, again, I, I think the attachment to the Biden administration really didn't, it didn't, it didn't help.

[00:49:57] I think her numbers, I think her numbers would have [00:50:00] been, I don't think it would have been, I don't think it would have been a red wave like we saw, but I a hundred percent still think that that affiliation and the way that the transition happened, no one could have, you know, come back from that. That's my personal opinion.

[00:50:16] I think it would have looked different number wise, but I don't think that person would have won regardless. Do 

[00:50:22] Beki: you think Biden would have? 

[00:50:25] Shannon: No. I don't either. 

[00:50:27] Richard: I wouldn't even have wanted to vote for Biden. Yeah. 

[00:50:32] Shannon: Yeah. I think a lot of people voted for Biden because he had Kamala on the ticket, but they just didn't take into account the people that didn't want to, that voted because of Biden.

[00:50:43] You know, like that didn't swing with her as well. 

[00:50:46] Beki: Rrrrright, 

[00:50:47] Shannon: yeah. But I will say this. So it's interesting because I think this election, me being a black woman, it never really was singularly about race, [00:51:00] like in racism and racist, even though there's all these extremist groups that come out. I'll share a brief story.

[00:51:06] I don't remember when this was. It was four years ago. Basically, I got caught in one of those Trump mob things. I was, they had like, like Trump, like military trucks everywhere. Encompassed. I got flicked off by a six year, like she looked to be six, eight years old. 

[00:51:22] Screaming 

[00:51:23] Shannon: at us. It was like crazy. The next day was election day.

[00:51:27] I had to have to go with my husband because I just did not feel safe to go with myself. So, to see that level of hate for somebody that's just in a vehicle, it had me pause where it was like, okay, are we really back? Are we back to this generation where if I'm just Black in a vehicle, it's a problem? But then I looked at them doing it to all races of people in the cars around.

[00:51:47] So I look at it like, I think this was beyond, or in my mind, people that chose to vote for him, I don't literally only look at them as racist, right? There is some type [00:52:00] of belief system in them, right? Whether it be there are conservative, very much. Religious foundations that he has touched upon and gravitated for for a group of people and I can't argue that I have my own beliefs and faith, so I understand it's about on 

[00:52:15] Richard: myself, but I understand, 

[00:52:17] Shannon: so I think for me, I have.

[00:52:23] Deleted people where it's like, it's a little much, right. When they're on their soapbox and, and, and, and spewing hate. But if you just have your own opinions about, if you think America's not great and you feel like America, make America great again, that's to each his own. I think question 

[00:52:42] Richard: mark, 

[00:52:44] Shannon: and maybe this is like.

[00:52:46] pessimistic of me. I am black in America. I think that that feeling of people not liking me for the color of my skin has always been present. So for it to be on a stage of the presidency, like that's, I mean, we're going [00:53:00] back, but I feel like that existence in my life has always been present. I know that some people are going to judge me and not like me for the color of my skin.

[00:53:07] So that doesn't offend me. I usually am a good judge of character. So if you don't rock with my skin tone, we, we not in the same. vicinity, right? And so I haven't had to have that conversation, but the people that I do talk to that have those opinions, there is something extremely polarizing that they don't agree with, right?

[00:53:28] Where I can say, Oh, okay, I understand. And I don't call people crazy for voting for him because whether or not I agree or disagree, half the majority of the country was like, Me too. I want to vote for Trump. So I don't want to say that because I feel like that's naive to be for me to say that they're crazy and I'm not right.

[00:53:47] They just are on a different thought process. And so I have not excommunicated anybody for the most part. 

[00:53:55] Beki: But just from a statistical basis, I feel like I have to say he did not quite hit 50 percent [00:54:00] at the end. No, but 

[00:54:02] Shannon: it still was a red wave, but yes, correct. But it's a lot of people for me to argue that there wasn't.

[00:54:09] I don't think it was just based off race and like, you know, white supremacist. I, I think it was a larger party. 

[00:54:17] Beki: I 100 percent agree that, that it's just that if someone has that as their reason. Yes. That, uh, that is exceptionally upsetting to me. Yes. If they have other reasons for it, I can appreciate that someone has A different value placed on something than what I have that's always open for discussion.

[00:54:39] Richard: Yeah, racism isn't a deal breaker for you versus some of those people. 

[00:54:43] Shannon: Well, I would say, I mean, Richard, do you think someone's going to come up to you and say I'm racist and that's why I voted for him? Like, I don't think that I've had that experience. I'm a white woman. I think they would. 

[00:54:55] Richard: Well, it depends on where you're at.

[00:54:56] That's why I don't go everywhere. 

[00:54:58] Shannon: Yes. Well, yes, but I [00:55:00] don't think that people that I would be connected to in that way that I would engage in a conversation about who you voted for would come out and say, I hate black people because we're talking so there there has to be some type of connection between us.

[00:55:14] I haven't had that. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but I don't think I've not experienced that. 

[00:55:20] Richard: I don't want to belabor the point, but I think there's some people who sometimes you start to feel like they're an exception. You're an exception. Like, you're my black friend. You're cool. But them over there, you do feel that sometimes, where it's like, you're the cool black person, but everybody Black ain't cool.

[00:55:37] I've gotten rid of all those friends, Richard. You gotta, you gotta get rid of us.

[00:55:44] I'm with you. Delete, delete, delete. 

[00:55:47] Shannon: We gotta, we gotta take some space cause that, no. 

[00:55:50] Richard: But you know exactly what I mean. It's like they might not come out and say it, but it's like so many microaggressions that would lead you to believe that that is a possibility. Even with [00:56:00] like, uh, why didn't you like Barack Obama?

[00:56:02] Like. Uh, I didn't, I didn't like Obamacare, but I love the Affordable Health Care Act. You know, that's the same thing, right? Oh yeah. Oh, it's cause he was black. Yeah. That's why I like him. Yeah. I would almost rather, like, I don't know if I would rather somebody just come out and say, Oh, all right, cool. Like I'm just gonna go over here.

[00:56:22] Beki: Yeah. Yeah. Easier to hit the delete 

[00:56:24] Richard: button. 

[00:56:25] Beki: Right? Because if you don't like Black people, then you don't like me. Yeah, 

[00:56:30] Shannon: but I just, I think that it's just so divisive. And I don't, I don't, I, again, my skin tone ain't gonna change me living here. So I don't really know how, I don't. I don't know how we're going to move forward, but there is a divisiveness.

[00:56:44] Again, I just think that we haven't learned our lesson. It's like cyclical, like I don't understand. Do you feel like 

[00:56:50] Beki: it is more verbalized now than it was before in terms of how people feel about race? At the, and I even, I'm uncomfortable even calling it [00:57:00] race because it's, it's not race, it's color because the race, we're all human, therefore we're single that way.

[00:57:07] Um, I mean, one of the things that really shook me to my core is more personal to me as a white woman was, though I'm of a certain age where maybe this doesn't affect me anymore, but it's like one of these things where one guy had come out saying, you know, Oh, your body, my choice. Yeah. And it, it shook me a bit for a while as a woman being out there, thinking all about, and I knew it in my head.

[00:57:34] I just hadn't really had it felt in my soul. And so that's my only parallel that I can draw from in that. And I'm just curious if you all feel that it's just a little bit more soul sucking now. even if it was always there. 

[00:57:55] Richard: I think for me, you kind of, it's kind of like, I've talked about it [00:58:00] on Shannon's previous podcast.

[00:58:02] It's kind of like a weight that you kind of get used to carrying. Yeah. And you never get to put that weight down. So you, like me, I don't want to speak for you, Shannon, but for me as a black man, it's just something that's always in the back of my mind. It's certain things that I'm cautious about, like, that I'm very cautious about in a way that is different from the way that you would be cautious for certain things, Becky, or even you, Shannon, would be cautious about.

[00:58:29] So, it's things that are in the back of my head that I carry waste, and I feel like we all do. The more marginalized communities you are a part of, the more weight you have to carry, in my opinion. So, me being a Black man, I carry certain weights, but Shannon being a Black female, she carries an additional weight for being a female.

[00:58:48] Yeah. And like, just for being a woman, she has a different weight, different things that she has to be concerned about. Um, so I think it's something like, I don't feel like it's any easier or any lighter. You just kind of get used, [00:59:00] you get mentally, hopefully you get mentally and spiritually strong to go through some of the things that you go through just because you had to carry the weights for so long.

[00:59:10] Shannon: So everything you said, yes, I think for me and the, it's, it's kind of a catch 22 cause I said that in the beginning I wasn't surprised, right? But me as a black woman, when the numbers came out, that. Was kind of like something that I had to sit with because as a Black woman, I've got passed over when I was extremely qualified.

[00:59:32] Right. I've been undermined and demeaned. And so when you as a Black woman carry that weight. Seeing her at the top, like of this elite status where she's more than capable and still told no, that was another layer of like, it's done. I can't say that you ever get used to it, but you carry it, right? I can't change who I am.

[00:59:54] I am cautious, right? I am teaching my son. He's only [01:00:00] seven, but we're, we're navigating this world of what it's going to be and what it is now, unfortunately. And so, yeah, I can't say that. It's felt different in regards to like my existence because I've always felt that burden, but I will say the day that The election happened.

[01:00:18] I was like, it wasn't like I kind of wanted to just pat her and be like, it's all right, you know, and I think every black woman was like, we've all been there. We've all experienced that. And we all like, I think had a grave disappointment of we hoped it wasn't this, but this is not surprising. That, you know what I mean?

[01:00:36] Like, this is not surprising that us as an American people weren't ready for a Black woman to lead. So, that's kind of my sentiment on it. Um. 

[01:00:47] Mm hmm. 

[01:00:48] Shannon: So, 

[01:00:49] Richard: we said a whole lot. Where do we go from here? 

[01:00:52] Beki: For me, one of the things that I have employed since the election has been a bit of a wait and [01:01:00] see attitude.

[01:01:01] Let's see which systems hold that are important to me and which ones don't. And. I'm a person in general who likes to collect all of the data before I panic, and so even when I've had medical scares, things like that, it's okay, well then let's see what the results are from the test before I lose my ever loving mind over it, and I am choosing not to lose my ever loving mind.

[01:01:29] And I have talked to a lot of people about that strategy, who they're like, Oh, that sounds like a nice idea. Um, because I can't panic about something that hasn't happened and might not happen. So. Look, I'll, I'll panic when I've got enough data, if I need to, but I'm more of an optimist than that, or a pragmatist than that.

[01:01:52] Let's, let's see what it is, and then we make choices about how to move forward based on it then. Maybe it's not as bad as we thought it would [01:02:00] be. Maybe it's worse. Don't know. Till we know. 

[01:02:03] Shannon: This is going to sound really therapy like, but I'm just going to say it. I would say radical acceptance, right? I can't change the decisions of others.

[01:02:11] I can't change where we are as a nation. And so I just accept where we are and whatever comes, comes. I really stay grounded in the things around me. So I like to be in the know about my local and state. And what's happening on that level, because that's going to be the first thing that impacts me. But I refuse to live my life in fear because we've had many a presidents.

[01:02:37] I mean, not mean in my lifetime, yes, but in general, I think it's four years, it's eight years, whatever the case may be, and then it keeps coming. It's a cycle. So for me, just accept it for what it is. If it's going to be four years of some rocky roads, like let's let it come. And again, Accepting what it is.

[01:02:56] I can't, we can't change it. So that's kind of how [01:03:00] I've been pushing through. And then again, staying abreast more, like more than I've ever have when it comes to state and local. 

[01:03:08] Richard: I think for me, the thing is the thing that I started to realize is that. A lot of stuff that's happening when you're driving down the street.

[01:03:17] It's not in the streets. It's not always physical. You don't, you don't see it right away. And whatever changes happens, it takes times if it, if it does even happen. So I think the thing is, is that you got to pay attention to the things that are important to you right now. And focus on those things. The thing about life, and this might sound a little bit sad, but trust me, I don't mean it to be sad.

[01:03:39] The thing about life is that life is fleeting. We never know how much time we have and how much time we have with some people. So the fact of the matter is, is that a lot of the things that we get upset about really don't matter in the spectrum of time. And a lot of the things that we're going now, we need to appreciate the things that we have now, because it's going to be a [01:04:00] day, could be a day where we don't have them anymore.

[01:04:02] I think the thing is, is like, we need to embrace the things that are important, the things that we love, the people that we love now, but not get so numb and content. that we are not planning for what's next. We talked about the lesser of two evils, and I always hear people say that, like, I don't want to, I don't want to vote for the lesser of two evils.

[01:04:25] I don't want to vote for the lesser of two evils. So now we have four years. Hopefully it's only four years and that they don't try to do something crazy where it's more, but we have four years now to prepare for who comes next. If you're a Democrat, you have four years To try to make the Democratic Party look like something that represents you.

[01:04:46] We have four years to make sure that the Republican Party looks more like to represent the people and who align with that side. We have all this time. The thing is, is that we want to create a great America. I don't know if [01:05:00] America has ever been great. So to make it great again, like, I know he's not talking about me.

[01:05:04] He lost me in that, in that right away. Right. So it's like, just to really to, to make sure that I'm doing my part, not just during the run up to the election. Not, not the last few months, uh, when the election's coming, but I'm doing my part now to, like, educate people. Like, hey, like, this is how the government works.

[01:05:26] To do shows like this, to be able to have, like, actual truth that is the truth. I mean, it's a, it's a lot of opinions, but I'm not gonna say my opinion is truth. Like, it's my opinion, and I'm gonna tell you from an educated standpoint, because perspective matters. And I would say we started with Germany and I ended with Germany and Germany.

[01:05:45] I was in a place that I had never been before, where the culture was different from my culture and my language wasn't the language that people spoke. And it made me really take a look at myself and the things that I value and see, like the world [01:06:00] functions differently in other places, but it still functions, right?

[01:06:04] And even want to escape and not come back to America, like part of me did. It was stuff going on in Germany. It's stuff going on in France. It's stuff going on in Spain. It's stuff going on all over the world. So we can't be like the, the thing can't be is to pick up and run. If it's a place that you love, like the United States, I love it.

[01:06:22] Even though it hasn't always historically loved my people, you fight for what you love and you do the things you need to make the things you love. And so what you hope it would be. So I think now is the time that we, we, we, we lick our wounds. We, we deal, don't worry because wearing is like a rocking chair.

[01:06:42] It gives you something to do, but it doesn't, it doesn't get you anywhere. And we plan for the future and we can't talk about we're planning for the future. And we just go and vote in four years. We have to do stuff now. And that's partially what this podcast is about. Right. Starting that conversation [01:07:00] now.

[01:07:00] Educating my friends and family now. Finding like minded people. And people who haven't had the perspectives I had. Show them a different perspective. Learning new perspectives. Shannon. Becky. Y'all perspectives was different than mine. Some of our stuff was similar. We're very similar generally, but we have very different perspectives, and I think it's important to have those conversations with people that you don't necessarily agree with, and to be able to see somebody else's perspective, because Thinking about cutting somebody off.

[01:07:28] If you can't talk to some people, then you'll never get them to see what you're trying to get them to see. Absolutely. Yes. 

[01:07:37] Beki: Yes. And maybe they'll never see it. Like you see it. 

[01:07:41] Richard: It's possible, but you got to try it. All right. 

[01:07:44] Beki: Yes. Got to educate. 

[01:07:47] Richard: Thanks for joining us on this journey. Remember the world looks different through every lens before you go.

[01:07:52] We'd love to hear from you. What's the moment in your life that changed how you see the world? Use the link in the show notes to share your story with us. Your voice [01:08:00] helps us grow and your stories keeps the conversation going. I'm Richard and on behalf of myself, Becky and Shannon, thanks for listening.

[01:08:08] Until next time.